Kuliah sejarah di ynetnews

wasserman

I continually struggle to find any justification by Israel for its illegal and immoral campaign against the Palestinians. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought every refugee had the right to return to their homes. Why should the Palestinians be denied this right by the international community? Israeli governments continually state that it is their home land but if one were to only look at maps of the region dating back 60 or 40 years one would see a different picture. The victor always chooses his own history but while Palestine was under British rule we did state that no other foreign nation would rule them. Tired of the Second World War Britain did not have the will or strength to fight for Palestinian rights against the insurgence of fleeing Jews. One has to remember that it was not the Palestinians who persecuted the Jews that triggered the exodus from Europe but us in Europe. now it is they that suffer.

Stella Goodwin , UK (02.05.09)

Ternyata, kesesatan sejarah itu bukan cuma di negara ini! :lol:

Siang tadi (8/2) blogwalking ke rumah Irene Yuan, kawan blogger di AS sana. Karena memang akhir-akhir ini malas nonton TV & baca koran (sedang kena virus prokrastinasi), saya jadi tak apdet kalau ada peristiwa pelemparan sepatu terhadap dubes Israel di Swedia, seperti yang ditulis Irene.
Tertarik dengan berita yang lebih lengkap, saya menuju ke ynetnews, situs berita Israel tuk membaca artikelnya. Seperti blog, dibagian bawah artikel ada kolom komen (talkbacks) yang tentunya juga saya baca (karena gak sampai ratusan), dan sampailah pada komen #13 yang saya kutip diatas.

Yahahaha! :lol:
(lagi-lagi) saya ketawa sendiri!

Okay, saya tentu mengerti bahwa tidak semua orang mengerti sejarah (Israel) dengan benar, apalagi sejarah itu bisa banyak versinya. Kalau di Indo sih, dah jamak banget orang berkomentar ngawur tentang sejarah Israel seperti yang bisa kita baca di sejumlah blog; misalnya ada yang ngomong kalau Israel menang Perang Enam-Hari karena dipasok data CIA, bahkan ada yang pede menyamakan Israel dengan kolonialisme Belanda di Indonesia dulu. Dengan kata lain Israel menjajah tanah (dan rakyat) Palestina. Bleh… :|
Sehari-hari selama hampir dua bulan terakhir ini mengikuti kesesatan-kesesatan seperti itu di blogsfer lokal, rada kaget juga membaca hal serupa di situs global, dari orang Inggris pula!
Seharusnya memang gak perlu heran dengan yang seperti itu, bisa terjadi dimana saja memang, tapi tetap saja kesannya beda saat baca sendiri. :mrgreen:

Yah, tidak butuh waktu lama bagi Englishwoman tersebut tuk mendapat setumpuk kecaman dan kuliah sejarah dari sejumlah komentator lain. Saya postingkan dibawah ini komen-komen balasan yang IMO informatif. FYI saya perbaiki sejumlah typo dari komen asli semampu saya untuk kenikmatan membaca, dan, mohon maaf bagi yang tidak mengerti bahasa Inggris. ;)
(untuk membaca SEMUA komentar di situs aslinya, silahkan klik disini)

Komen #19
#13, interesting white washing of the Brits
Have some shame, lady. Jews have lived in that area continuously for centuries. Jerusalem had a HUGE Jewish quarter for a very long time. The Brits made promises to both Jews and Arabs and obviously did not plan on keeping any of them (as usual). Your history is very distorted. Both Jews and Arabs were attacking British troops. That is why the Brits left the Palestine mandate. Read a book and learn something. Don’t you have any shame? Ireland, India, Africa should I go on? What the British did in Ireland was much worse than what is happening to “Palestinian” Arabs. Or did you even know or care what happened to Palestinian Jews for all those centuries as Dhimmi.

Just think, the Brits could have aided the Irish at the time of the famine, but didn’t. How cruel was that? Have some shame. The Brits have a huge legacy in starting the problems in the Middle East which is still going on today. Shame on you, lady.
SAM , USA (02.05.09)

Komen #22
Stella Goodwin no 13
Stella Goodwin, you are an idiot.

Jews have lived in Israel for well over 40 r 60 years. Tel Aviv is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. Jews have lived in Israel for much longer than you seem to know.

Furthermore, why does you ‘historical’ justification of who gets to live there start and end around “40 or 60 ” years ago? Try thousands of years ago. I think you’ll find that Israel was a Jewish state well before anyone even invented a people known as the ‘Palestinians’.

Go away, learn some history, and then form an opinion. Or if you can’t be bothered, keep you misinformed gut feelings to yourself. They add nothing to sensible debate.

Komen #23
13# Stella
First, the Palis refused to accept the 2 states solution. The refugees was told to leave by the Arab armies (and I wont lie also by IDF), that was sure of their victory. Now you better not talk about ‘homeland’ cause there is no even doubt of who was the first one to rule the area 3000 years ago(and don’t tell me there were others before cause we’re the only nation/religion that survived)…The fact that they lived here since the muslim occupation doesn’t make it their homeland. I don’t remember they yelled occupation when they lived under the rule of Egypt & Jordan(till 67). We always agreed to solutions but what can we do when they constantly refusing?
Daniel , Rehovot, Israel (02.05.09)

Komen #25
#13
I think you should go read some history books. At the time of the Mandate, only Jews were referred to as Palestinians – no self-respecting Arab would go by that definition. Most of the refugees ran away at the instigation of their own leaders, having been promised that they would return victorious within 3 days after the Jews had been driven into the sea. Of course the Brits didn’t have the strength to fight for Palestinian rights after WWII, since, as mentioned above, the Jews were referred to as Palestinians and the Brits were busy expending their strength on stopping Jewish refugees from Europe (where they and the Europeans stood by while they were slaughtered) from reaching Eretz Yisrael – our homeland since before Christianity and Islam – an interring them In Cyprus, or in Atlit if they managed to reach these shores.

Keep struggling, Stella.
Madeleine , Israel (02.05.09)

Komen #26
Stella
You have been getting your propaganda from either leftists or Muslims…Refugees are not always allowed back, ask the Sudetan Germans or the Germans from western Poland about that…Aggressive wars have consequences, and the Arabs have theirs from the aggression of 1948. The Arabs created 800,000 Jewish refugees from 1948-1952, you have no sympathy for these refugees? From Brits like you its always the Joos who need to be punished… also check out the Arab participation in the Shoah thru the efforts of the Mufti of Jerusalem and his direct responsibility for the murder of 10,000 Jews from Hungary. So take a little time study some historical facts and stop visiting propaganda web sites and THINK FOR YOURSELF…
PW , Virginia USA (02.05.09)

Komen #29
#13 Don’t display your ignorance
Dear Stella,
If you care to really read about the history of Palestine (which by the way has nothing to do with the Arab population- this is a Roman name!)
You’ll find that before the British mandate which commenced in 1917 (after General Allenby took it over from the Ottomans), the land was almost empty and deserted (read what some explorers said about it, including Mark Twain!) the truth is that Arab nomads immigrated into Palestine in greater numbers only during the British mandate. In Jerusalem for example Jews were the majority through many generations including during the Ottoman Empire period. If you look at any archeological findings this was the land of Jews long before Islam was created. Even today 80% of Jordan population are what you call Palestinians. The sad truth is that the Palis today are simply used as pawns by the Arabs countries against Israel (which they see as western “invasion” into the Middle East). Now in 1947 following UN decision, a 2 state solution was accepted by Israel! the Arabs as a response started the 1948 war, and this war created what is called the refugee problem, which again is a manipulation of the Arabs. Look at the map as you suggest and see what is the difference in the area of Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon together (that’s were the Palestinians came from!) compared to Israel. Now you should ask the logical question: Why the Arab countries (or their brothers as they say) which are their true home don’t want them back?? why for 20 years (1948-1967- Before west bank and Gaza taken, again due to a war started by the Arabs)they kept then locked in refugee camps and didn’t allow them to assimilate in their countries? while at the same time, Israel got almost all the Jews who were forced out form the Arab countries, after living there for generations. The truth is that there is no a shred of evidence for any Palestinian entity, it is all a typical distortion of history made by the muslim world, and unfortunately we here in the UK, and in Europe being to easily manipulated by PR and media (Liberal left) and fail to distinguish between friend and foe.
Ted , UK (02.05.09)

Komen #32
STELLA!!!!! (#13) – Think before you talk!
You asked us to correct you if you are wrong, so here I go:

You call Israel’s campaign immoral and illegal – Find me a Palestinian map of the Middle East with Israel on it. You won’t find it. Look up the Official Charter of the Palestinians (Fatah, Hamas, you pick), see if it talks about independence without mentioning the destruction of Israel in it. Again, you won’t find it. They don’t want Israel and try to destroy it every way possible, forcing Israel to defend itself constantly.

You talk about refugees – Go look up how many actual Arab Refugees left Israel in 1948. Go see how many Jews were booted from Arab countries in 1948. Now go see whether any of the Jews have been allowed back into the countries that kicked them out. Now go look up whether these Arab “refugees” were forced out by Israel and how many were encouraged by their leaders to leave”. Moreover, go see how loosely the term refugee is used for the Palestinians as opposed to all other war refugees. Oh yeah, whiule you’re at it, count how many Arabs are in the Israeli Knesset. Now count how many Jews are in Arab positions of Government.

As to your incomplete version of history, one wishes you were right. First, look up how the Grand Mufti and Hitler were allies during WWII. Second, look up how Your country tried every possible way to limit Jewish immigration to Palestine, while allowing the Arabs to come unlimited. Then, go back beyond your 40-60 years to the end of the 19th century and see how many Arabs were in Israel at the time (Check Mark Twain’s quotes). They weren’t here. When the Jews started coming, they, protected by the Ottomans, started claiming lands.

Know the facts before you talk.

One more thing – when are you going to advocate for the refugee rights of the American Indians. Surely they number more than the Palestinian refugees?
JG , Modiin, Israel (02.05.09)

Komen #34
#13 stella, Europeans after WW I carved middle east region and created Syria, Iraq, and Palestine. 80% of Palestine is the state of Jordan, mostly inhabited by those Palestinians you talk about.
it is true the Brits aided the Arabs but the Arabs were not self governed here, they never formed a state here, & were not registered as the land owners in the ottoman land registry. They formed a local uniting movement only when Jews became a large minority in the 20th century. The British were not the first to try appeasing the Arabs by maintaining the Jewish minority ratio, so did the Ottomans, and other empires that ruled this region, because Jews were nonviolent people 2000 years, whereas Arabs were always blood thirsty bullies.
Arabs were slaughtering Jews here for centuries while living in cities created by Jews. If you are familiar with the Old Testament, you have some idea what I’m talking about. it was the arab interest to keep the middle east free of foreign influences, especially Jewish, as Jews always sought to return to Zion, another word for Jerusalem in bible. Arabs were seeking to keep the Jews tortured and unwelcome here, mainly because Jews were a nation here for 1500 years, which is longer then islam exists. Jews are a separate ethnic group, it’s not just a religion, it’s a way of life, a culture with traditions. whereas Palestinians are not a nation, they are Arabs, who came to the holy land, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc, from the same place, namely the Arabian Syrian deserts. but here they lived on the ruins of israel, and seek to do so again.
Palestine is a name given to this region by people who mispronounced philistines. But Philistines are an extinct race of idol worshippers, whereas Palestinians are Moslem Arabs.
Jews always wanted live together as a nation that they are, but only in the 20th century they managed to achieve it. Arab Moslems simply continue the same dogma, only this time, Jews are the majority, so they find it harder to kick them out, but they keep trying, because this is what they always did to Jews, and so they seek to be an arab majority here, using every possible means, not just traditional killing based on religious convictions they kept up in the Middle East.
historic reminder (02.05.09)

Komen #52
60 years ago there were no Palestinians yet, they were Arabs. The Israeli Arabs and the modern Palestinians are one and the same [the first batch , stayed, the second one, they left Israel, even thought Ben Gurion begged them to stay, but they chose to leave. Whose to blame? their ancestors.
By the way, the Promised Land belongs to the twelve Tribes of Israel. The Arabs already stole some of their lands. #13 ,
MD (02.05.09)

BtW, komen terakhir terhadap Stella yang saya kutip ini (komen #70) tidak terlalu informatif, bahkan emosional, tetapi saya suka, mengingatkan lagi bahwa urusan “mengembalikan tanah” ini bukan cuma masalah di Timur Tengah/Israel saja. ;)
Ini komennya:

#13 STELLA -U.K.-ARABS RETURN TO THEIR OWN HOMELAND--BRITAIN
STELLA, DID YOU JUST LAND FROM MARS?
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

THE BRITS SHOULD RETURN THE FALKLANDS STOLEN FROM ARGENTINA, RETURN IRELAND TO IRISH AND THE LIST IS ENDLESS...

BUT, STELLA AND U.K. -- YOU HAVE ONE VERY HUGE PROBLEM NOW.

THE LARGE NUMBERS OF ARABS, MUSLIMS COMING TO U.K,.

IT SEEMS THAT THE ARABS-MUSLIMS ARE CLAIMING THE RIGHT OF RETURN TO THEIR OWN TRUE HOMELAND----THAT IS CALLED BRITAIN ! ---

AND STELLA, THEY WILL TELL YOU WHERE TO GO, BUT NOT IN A POLITE MANNER!
AVRUM , CANADA (02.07.09)

:mrgreen:
*ntah kenapa jadi teringat aspirasi pemekaran di Sumatra Utara dan perang sipil pemerintah vs separatis Tamil di Sri Lanka yang sedang hangat*







Notes:
[1] kartun diatas saya tambahkan dari situs lain buat dekorasi saja, tidak ada hubungannya langsung dengan artikel yang saya kopas disini.

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22 Responses to “Kuliah sejarah di ynetnews”


  1. 1 Menik Februari 8, 2009 pukul 2:37 pm

    salam kenal :)
    makasih dah berteduh di saung saya :)
    *celingukan nyari buku tamu*

  2. 2 Disc-Co Februari 8, 2009 pukul 2:55 pm

    Saya sendiri masih bingung sama sejarah Palestina-Israel, sebab saya selalu mendapat informasi yang berbeda dari orang yang berbeda.

    Tapi saya juga merasa gak suka sama tindakan Israel yang katanya ingin membumihanguskan Masjidil Aqsa. Itu bangunan bersejarah bukan? :?

    *sok bergaya menjadi sejarawan*

  3. 3 astieblue Februari 8, 2009 pukul 3:08 pm

    me too…setuju bgt soal masjidil aqsa…
    entah lah *ikutan bingung* soalny belum pernah baca scra lengkap ttg sejarah palestina-israel…

  4. 4 Muda Bentara Februari 8, 2009 pukul 5:42 pm

    ndak ngerti saya mas …

  5. 5 Catshade Februari 8, 2009 pukul 5:56 pm

    *groans* not again… :?

    Sudah saya bilangin dari dulu, klaim kepemilikan tanah berdasarkan masa lalu hanya bakal jadi tarik ulur sejarah; sejauh mana kita menarik garis batas waktu yang selama ini gak pernah bisa disepakati. Mending lihat berdasarkan fakta saat ini saja deh… :|

    Dan untuk orang2 yang menyamakan Palestina dengan Indonesia yang dijajah Belanda, coba lihat gerakan-gerakan separatisme lokal (RMS, GAM, DI/TII, OPM, dll) yang merasa mereka dijajah ‘bangsa Jawa’… :roll:

  6. 6 Arm Februari 8, 2009 pukul 8:34 pm

    ah, makanya saya ga gitu suka belajar sejarah timur tengah -_-’

    setau saya sih Israel emang dapet tanah itu secara resmi dari Inggris, sementara sebelumnya Inggris dapet tanah itu secara “resmi” juga sbg kompensasi setelah menang Perang Dunia 1 atas Ottoman
    jadi ya, suka2 Inggris tu tanah mo dikasihin ke siapa -_-
    orang Yordania juga berdiri berkat bantuan Inggris setelah keluarga Hashemit kalah perang melawan keluarga Saud (yg mendirikan Arab Saudi)

  7. 7 dnial Februari 9, 2009 pukul 1:52 am

    *facepalm*

    The only lesson we learn from history is that we never learn… :(

    Lalu kenapa kalau Yahudi dan Palestina ada di sana bertahun2 (atau ratusan tahun lamanya), lalu kenapa kalau tanah Palestina dijajah atau Israel duluan merdeka?

    What’s done is done… Sekarang gimana caranya mereka belajar hidup bersama.

  8. 8 Yuan Irene Februari 9, 2009 pukul 3:56 am

    begini saja, katakanlah Israel adalah ‘the rightful owner’ seluruh tanah perjanjian, dari perbatasan selatan lebanon sampai laut merah, termasuk di dalamnya gaza dan west bank (sekalian aja, nih bonus dari gw, gw kasih southern lebanon, the golan heights, a huge chunk of jordan,and the dead sea–kasih senang).

    juga, katakanlah, orang2 arab di tanah israel itu semunya nomad dan immigran. jadi, orang2 arab itu ga ada hak untuk buka mulut ttg isu kepemilikan.

    sekarang, dengan framework spt itu, coba kembali kpd pokok komen stella: bukankah org palestina punya hak untuk self-determination???
    bukankah mereka, spt orang israel jg,punya hak untuk hidup tanpa ancaman?(tentu stella seharusnya bisa menyusun pertanyaan tersebut tanpa menunjukan ketololannya). it’s a yes/no question.

    yang gw liat dari komen2 di atas, cuman usaha untuk membenarkan kekerasan dengan alasan kepemilikan: bahwa sengsara orang palestin adl legal dan moral. dgn kata lain, the arab’s crimes cancels out their crimes. if they throw qassam rockets at us, why can’t we raze down their homes?

  9. 9 Mas Indra Februari 9, 2009 pukul 5:07 am

    halah…mumet denger perang trus…………

  10. 10 carra Februari 9, 2009 pukul 6:27 am

    busyet :lol: took me all my lunch hour just trying to understand this hahahaha… gee… kebayang ga sih maksi cuman pake pop mie tp yg didepan mata adalah postingan serius dan sensi beginih hahaha… ndak balance blas!!!

    hmmm… sejarah israel ma palestina… ga bakalan selese deh klo aku pikir… masalah tarik ulur wilayah begini mah… klo di sini kae sengketa tanah versi kompleks kaenya yah…

    entahlah :-?

    btw… aku suka itu kartun :lol: cocok banget :P

  11. 11 Fritzter Februari 10, 2009 pukul 8:15 am

    *ntah kenapa jadi teringat aspirasi pemekaran di Sumatra Utara dan perang sipil pemerintah vs separatis Tamil di Sri Lanka yang sedang hangat*

    Saya malah bingung kenapa harus susah payah mengingat Sumut dan Sri Lanka sementara tanah yg mbu’ injek sendiri masih diodos-odos orang Papua yang mengklaim kepemilikan? :roll:

    @Catshade

    Sudah saya bilangin dari dulu, klaim kepemilikan tanah berdasarkan masa lalu hanya bakal jadi tarik ulur sejarah;

    Lha habisnya cuman masa lalu yang bisa dijadikan pedoman je.
    Walau alasan utamanya fasis dan sanguinis, kedua belah pihak kan tetap ingin punya justifikasi juga untuk menutupi alasan utama yang kurang trendy itu. :lol:

    @dnial

    *facepalm*

    “Wipes face” you mean? Facepalm apaan si? Faceslap kali? :???:

    Lalu kenapa kalau tanah Palestina dijajah atau Israel duluan merdeka?

    Lho lho lho IT’S SHOWBIZ, DUDE!!!
    Ini tontonan gladiator abad ini. Dicandui penduduk dunia. Hanya sedikit hal yang lebih manusiawi selain menikmati tontonan ujian terhadap kemanusiaan itu sendiri.
    Para penangis moralis pencinta sinetron dan tragedi nan masokis akan menggebu-gebu membela Palestina,
    sementara para pemuja mainan pembunuh, pencinta perang dan pengagung-kemenangan-orang-lain-karena-dirinya-sendiri-tak-pernah-menang-melawan-kehidupan akan orgasme memandang kilau militer Israel nan digjaya.
    While those who are neither of the above would mind their own business, live their own lives and carry on with their own battles.

    Right or wrong doesn’t matter anymore. I can’t remember when they actually mattered anyway. The only way to claim righteousness is by winning. Losers are evil.

  12. 12 dnial Februari 10, 2009 pukul 11:04 am

    @fritzer

    “Wipes face” you mean? Facepalm apaan si? Faceslap kali? :???:

    Comprendez-vous?

    Right or wrong doesn’t matter anymore. I can’t remember when they actually mattered anyway. The only way to claim righteousness is by winning. Losers are evil.

    *facepalm*

  13. 13 Fritzter Februari 10, 2009 pukul 4:47 pm

    ^
    Comprende amigo :mrgreen:

    *facepalm*

    They are evil. They really are. :twisted:

  14. 14 hawe69 Februari 11, 2009 pukul 7:34 am

    ah, komentar frizter paling gampang dicerna ama
    otak gw yang bolot untuk urusan sejarah ato perang.

    It’s indeed a showbiz, tontonan gladiator yang mendunia..

    untuk urusan lahan siapa milik siapa.. aduhhh..itu rumah nyokap gw aja diambil ama tetangga sebelah 10cm pas renovasi rumah.. trus musti ribut seperti perang israel-palestine dueh biar banyak yang nonton..

  15. 15 The Bitch Februari 11, 2009 pukul 4:25 pm

    Amen, Brotha!

    *hi five to fritzter*

  16. 17 jensen99 Februari 12, 2009 pukul 1:46 pm

    @ Menik

    Salam kenal juga. :D Makasih dah kesini.

    Buku tamunya ada di page about diatas, tapi tak terlihat karena tulisannya gak kontras dengan warna headernya. :mrgreen:

    @ Disc-Co

    Saya sendiri masih bingung sama sejarah Palestina-Israel, sebab saya selalu mendapat informasi yang berbeda dari orang yang berbeda

    Yaa.. itu hak masbro untuk memilih mana yang layak dipercaya, tapi saya brani jamin berdasar sejarah yang pernah saya pelajari bahwa fakta-fakta sejarah yang dipaparkan para pembaca ynet diatas adalah benar adanya. :)
    Tapi kalo boleh kasi rujukan, coba ini atau ini tuk belajar sejarah singkat.

    Tapi saya juga merasa gak suka sama tindakan Israel yang katanya ingin membumihanguskan Masjidil Aqsa.

    Saya belum pernah dengar rencana itu dari pihak pemerintah Israel dan sejauh ini AFAIK Israel melindungi tempat itu. Hanya memang di tempat mesjid itu berdiri, pernah berdiri Bait Suci Yahudi yang diwahyukan bakal dibangun kembali, ntah kapan. ;)

    Itu bangunan bersejarah bukan? :?

    Pandangan saya sih berbeda…. :roll:

    @ astieblue

    Karena poinnya sama dengan komennya mas Disc-Co, jawabannya juga sama yaa~ ^^

    @ Muda Bentara

    Sederhananya, ada wanita Inggris yang mencoba membela nasib pengungsi Palestina, tetapi dia memakai dasar sejarah yang tidak tepat untuk menjelaskan argumennya, sehingga para pembaca berikutnya bergantian menjelaskan sejarah Israel-Palestina padanya. ;)
    Maaf yaa, artikelnya memang berbahasa Inggris.

    @ Catshade

    *groans* not again… :?

    Hee, kenapa? Tidak semua orang mengerti sejarah sebaik masbro lho..^^

    [...] klaim kepemilikan tanah berdasarkan masa lalu hanya bakal jadi tarik ulur sejarah; sejauh mana kita menarik garis batas waktu yang selama ini gak pernah bisa disepakati.

    Sejarah itu penting, masbro. Tanpa pemahaman sejarah yang utuh, bakal sulit membicarakan kedaulatan Israel diatas tanah sengketa itu. ;)

    Mending lihat berdasarkan fakta saat ini saja deh… :|

    Fakta saat ini? Mungkin nanti saya tulis/kupipes yang kira2 mewakili situasi terkini (dan kedepannya), kalo dapat. :mrgreen:

    Dan untuk orang2 yang menyamakan Palestina dengan Indonesia yang dijajah Belanda, coba lihat gerakan-gerakan separatisme lokal (RMS, GAM, DI/TII, OPM, dll) yang merasa mereka dijajah ‘bangsa Jawa’… :roll:

    Hmm.. kok jadi saya yang bingung hubungannya ya? :?

    @ Arm

    ah, makanya saya ga gitu suka belajar sejarah timur tengah -_-’

    Untuk seseorang yang berbicara demikian, pengetahuan sejarah masbro banyak. (pengaruh Age of Empire?) ^^

    setau saya sih Israel emang dapet tanah itu secara resmi dari Inggris, sementara sebelumnya Inggris dapet tanah itu secara “resmi” juga sbg kompensasi setelah menang Perang Dunia 1 atas Ottoman
    jadi ya, suka2 Inggris tu tanah mo dikasihin ke siapa -_-

    Dengan tidak melupakan perjuangan kaum Zionis menuntut tanah air mereka kembali, itu betul.

    orang Yordania juga berdiri berkat bantuan Inggris setelah keluarga Hashemit kalah perang melawan keluarga Saud (yg mendirikan Arab Saudi)

    Yo, buat Emir Abdullah dari Hejaz, di Arab Saudi sono.
    Banyak orang yang tak tahu bahwa dari seluruh tanah Inggris di Palestina, 75% sudah diberikan buat Arab, jadi Yordania. Sekarang sisa 25% (Israel) masih juga dipaksa dibagi ke Arab, jadi negara Palestina. :|

    @ dnial

    The only lesson we learn from history is that we never learn… :(

    I learn that the so-called Palestinian does have no history

    Lalu kenapa kalau Yahudi dan Palestina ada di sana bertahun2 (atau ratusan tahun lamanya), lalu kenapa kalau tanah Palestina dijajah atau Israel duluan merdeka?

    Masalahnya, masbro, gak semua orang ngerti sejarah seperti masbro. ;)

    What’s done is done… Sekarang gimana caranya mereka belajar hidup bersama.

    Itu bukan masalah sejarah lagi tentunya, tapi masalah sendiri yang jauh lebih rumit. Nanti lihat apa saya bisa nulis/cari artikel tentang itu. :)

    @ Yuan Irene

    [...] coba kembali kpd pokok komen stella: bukankah org palestina punya hak untuk self-determination???

    Meskipun tidak memilih, tapi lahir diatas tanah orang, nasibnya ya bergantung ke yang punya tanah, IMO.

    bukankah mereka, spt orang israel jg,punya hak untuk hidup tanpa ancaman?

    Iya, saya tahu, juga kewajiban untuk hidup tanpa mengancam.

    it’s a yes/no question.

    well… *garuk-garuk kepala*

    yang gw liat dari komen2 di atas, cuman usaha untuk membenarkan kekerasan dengan alasan kepemilikan: bahwa sengsara orang palestin adl legal dan moral. dgn kata lain, the arab’s crimes cancels out their crimes. if they throw qassam rockets at us, why can’t we raze down their homes?

    why can’t? who wanna talk to Hamas? even their Fatah brothers, or Arab brethren cannot do it… :?

    @ Mas Indra

    Hohoho… :mrgreen:

    @ carra

    busyet :lol: took me all my lunch hour just trying to understand this hahahaha…

    Maaf, carra, saya gak nyangka bakal dibaca pas lunchtime… :P
    Makan siang jangan pop mie dong, mbak! XD

    ga bakalan selese deh klo aku pikir…

    Sejauh ini sih belum selesai, tapi diusahakan banget oleh banyak pihak kok. Kita ikuti saja. ;)

    btw… aku suka itu kartun :lol: cocok banget :P

    Makasih :D

    @ Fritzter

    Saya malah bingung kenapa harus susah payah mengingat Sumut dan Sri Lanka sementara tanah yg mbu’ injek sendiri masih diodos-odos orang Papua yang mengklaim kepemilikan? :roll:

    Susah payah? Justru lebih gampang itu karena hari itu sedang rajin keluar di newsticker MetroTV.

    @ hawe69

    ah, komentar frizter paling gampang dicerna ama
    otak gw yang bolot untuk urusan sejarah ato perang.

    Syukurlah kalo membantu. :D

    It’s indeed a showbiz, tontonan gladiator yang mendunia..

    Padahal beberapa konflik lain gak kalah berdarah-darah dari itu ;)

    @ The Bitch

    :|

    *tidak heran*

  17. 18 Irene Februari 13, 2009 pukul 12:51 am

    Meskipun tidak memilih, tapi lahir diatas tanah orang, nasibnya ya bergantung ke yang punya tanah, IMO.

    kalo melihat konflik ini berlandaskan pemikiran seperti itu ya berarti memang ga ada ruang untuk kompromi. we’re in a deadlock, mas. zionist vs. anti-zionist. mampuslah kita :)

  18. 19 jensen99 Februari 13, 2009 pukul 4:04 am

    @ Irene

    Kalo pemikiran idealis saya sebagai zionist sepertinya “non kompromi” ya? (far right view?) Tapi saya juga tidak ingin ‘mendahului’ apa yang nantinya diputuskan Israel tentang Palestina. Jadi kita ikuti saja perkembangannya sama2. ;)
    Misalkan saja suatu saat Yerusalem Timur diberikan Israel menjadi ibukota negara Palestina, walaupun pasti dalam hati gak terima, tapi ya saya bakal OK saja kok. :P
    Btw pemerintahan baru pasca pemilu Israel belum juga dibentuk, mungkin ke depan bakal ada kebijakan2 dari PM baru yang lebih pas dengan pandangan Irene. ;)

  19. 20 Irene Februari 13, 2009 pukul 6:16 am

    perkembangan hasil pemilu mereka makin menarik tuh. netanyahu dan livni dua duanya mengclaim victory.

    Btw pemerintahan baru pasca pemilu Israel belum juga dibentuk, mungkin ke depan bakal ada kebijakan2 dari PM baru yang lebih pas dengan pandangan Irene.

    mungkin kalo PM nya dari partai Hadash :D . kalo likud ato kadima, gw ga banyak berharap.

  20. 21 jensen99 Februari 13, 2009 pukul 2:45 pm

    @ Irene

    Gimana gak adu klaim kalo Likud dan Kadima cuma beda 1 kursi? :D

    mungkin kalo PM nya dari partai Hadash :D

    Yang cuma 4 kursi itu? Hayah… :mrgreen:

  21. 22 Irene Februari 14, 2009 pukul 4:16 am

    hehe..ya makanya gw ga banyak berharap sama knesset.


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JenSen99 is

I got a heart full of pain, head full of stress, handfull of anger, held in my chest. And everything left’s a waste of time~
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