I continually struggle to find any justification by Israel for its illegal and immoral campaign against the Palestinians. Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought every refugee had the right to return to their homes. Why should the Palestinians be denied this right by the international community? Israeli governments continually state that it is their home land but if one were to only look at maps of the region dating back 60 or 40 years one would see a different picture. The victor always chooses his own history but while Palestine was under British rule we did state that no other foreign nation would rule them. Tired of the Second World War Britain did not have the will or strength to fight for Palestinian rights against the insurgence of fleeing Jews. One has to remember that it was not the Palestinians who persecuted the Jews that triggered the exodus from Europe but us in Europe. now it is they that suffer.
Stella Goodwin , UK (02.05.09)
Ternyata, kesesatan sejarah itu bukan cuma di negara ini! :lol:
Siang tadi (8/2) blogwalking ke rumah Irene Yuan, kawan blogger di AS sana. Karena memang akhir-akhir ini malas nonton TV & baca koran (sedang kena virus prokrastinasi), saya jadi tak apdet kalau ada peristiwa pelemparan sepatu terhadap dubes Israel di Swedia, seperti yang ditulis Irene.
Tertarik dengan berita yang lebih lengkap, saya menuju ke ynetnews, situs berita Israel tuk membaca artikelnya. Seperti blog, dibagian bawah artikel ada kolom komen (talkbacks) yang tentunya juga saya baca (karena gak sampai ratusan), dan sampailah pada komen #13 yang saya kutip diatas.
(lagi-lagi) saya ketawa sendiri!
Okay, saya tentu mengerti bahwa tidak semua orang mengerti sejarah (Israel) dengan benar, apalagi sejarah itu bisa banyak versinya. Kalau di Indo sih, dah jamak banget orang berkomentar ngawur tentang sejarah Israel seperti yang bisa kita baca di sejumlah blog; misalnya ada yang ngomong kalau Israel menang Perang Enam-Hari karena dipasok data CIA, bahkan ada yang pede menyamakan Israel dengan kolonialisme Belanda di Indonesia dulu. Dengan kata lain Israel menjajah tanah (dan rakyat) Palestina. Bleh… :|
Sehari-hari selama hampir dua bulan terakhir ini mengikuti kesesatan-kesesatan seperti itu di blogsfer lokal, rada kaget juga membaca hal serupa di situs global, dari orang Inggris pula!
Seharusnya memang gak perlu heran dengan yang seperti itu, bisa terjadi dimana saja memang, tapi tetap saja kesannya beda saat baca sendiri. :mrgreen:
Yah, tidak butuh waktu lama bagi Englishwoman tersebut tuk mendapat setumpuk kecaman dan kuliah sejarah dari sejumlah komentator lain. Saya postingkan dibawah ini komen-komen balasan yang IMO informatif. FYI saya perbaiki sejumlah typo dari komen asli semampu saya untuk kenikmatan membaca, dan, mohon maaf bagi yang tidak mengerti bahasa Inggris. ;)
(untuk membaca SEMUA komentar di situs aslinya, silahkan klik disini)
#13, interesting white washing of the Brits
Have some shame, lady. Jews have lived in that area continuously for centuries. Jerusalem had a HUGE Jewish quarter for a very long time. The Brits made promises to both Jews and Arabs and obviously did not plan on keeping any of them (as usual). Your history is very distorted. Both Jews and Arabs were attacking British troops. That is why the Brits left the Palestine mandate. Read a book and learn something. Don’t you have any shame? Ireland, India, Africa should I go on? What the British did in Ireland was much worse than what is happening to “Palestinian” Arabs. Or did you even know or care what happened to Palestinian Jews for all those centuries as Dhimmi.
Just think, the Brits could have aided the Irish at the time of the famine, but didn’t. How cruel was that? Have some shame. The Brits have a huge legacy in starting the problems in the Middle East which is still going on today. Shame on you, lady.
SAM , USA (02.05.09)
Stella Goodwin no 13
Stella Goodwin, you are an idiot.
Jews have lived in Israel for well over 40 r 60 years. Tel Aviv is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. Jews have lived in Israel for much longer than you seem to know.
Furthermore, why does you ‘historical’ justification of who gets to live there start and end around “40 or 60 ” years ago? Try thousands of years ago. I think you’ll find that Israel was a Jewish state well before anyone even invented a people known as the ‘Palestinians’.
Go away, learn some history, and then form an opinion. Or if you can’t be bothered, keep you misinformed gut feelings to yourself. They add nothing to sensible debate.
First, the Palis refused to accept the 2 states solution. The refugees was told to leave by the Arab armies (and I wont lie also by IDF), that was sure of their victory. Now you better not talk about ‘homeland’ cause there is no even doubt of who was the first one to rule the area 3000 years ago(and don’t tell me there were others before cause we’re the only nation/religion that survived)…The fact that they lived here since the muslim occupation doesn’t make it their homeland. I don’t remember they yelled occupation when they lived under the rule of Egypt & Jordan(till 67). We always agreed to solutions but what can we do when they constantly refusing?
Daniel , Rehovot, Israel (02.05.09)
I think you should go read some history books. At the time of the Mandate, only Jews were referred to as Palestinians – no self-respecting Arab would go by that definition. Most of the refugees ran away at the instigation of their own leaders, having been promised that they would return victorious within 3 days after the Jews had been driven into the sea. Of course the Brits didn’t have the strength to fight for Palestinian rights after WWII, since, as mentioned above, the Jews were referred to as Palestinians and the Brits were busy expending their strength on stopping Jewish refugees from Europe (where they and the Europeans stood by while they were slaughtered) from reaching Eretz Yisrael – our homeland since before Christianity and Islam – an interring them In Cyprus, or in Atlit if they managed to reach these shores.
Keep struggling, Stella.
Madeleine , Israel (02.05.09)
You have been getting your propaganda from either leftists or Muslims…Refugees are not always allowed back, ask the Sudetan Germans or the Germans from western Poland about that…Aggressive wars have consequences, and the Arabs have theirs from the aggression of 1948. The Arabs created 800,000 Jewish refugees from 1948-1952, you have no sympathy for these refugees? From Brits like you its always the Joos who need to be punished… also check out the Arab participation in the Shoah thru the efforts of the Mufti of Jerusalem and his direct responsibility for the murder of 10,000 Jews from Hungary. So take a little time study some historical facts and stop visiting propaganda web sites and THINK FOR YOURSELF…
PW , Virginia USA (02.05.09)
#13 Don’t display your ignorance
If you care to really read about the history of Palestine (which by the way has nothing to do with the Arab population- this is a Roman name!)
You’ll find that before the British mandate which commenced in 1917 (after General Allenby took it over from the Ottomans), the land was almost empty and deserted (read what some explorers said about it, including Mark Twain!) the truth is that Arab nomads immigrated into Palestine in greater numbers only during the British mandate. In Jerusalem for example Jews were the majority through many generations including during the Ottoman Empire period. If you look at any archeological findings this was the land of Jews long before Islam was created. Even today 80% of Jordan population are what you call Palestinians. The sad truth is that the Palis today are simply used as pawns by the Arabs countries against Israel (which they see as western “invasion” into the Middle East). Now in 1947 following UN decision, a 2 state solution was accepted by Israel! the Arabs as a response started the 1948 war, and this war created what is called the refugee problem, which again is a manipulation of the Arabs. Look at the map as you suggest and see what is the difference in the area of Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon together (that’s were the Palestinians came from!) compared to Israel. Now you should ask the logical question: Why the Arab countries (or their brothers as they say) which are their true home don’t want them back?? why for 20 years (1948-1967- Before west bank and Gaza taken, again due to a war started by the Arabs)they kept then locked in refugee camps and didn’t allow them to assimilate in their countries? while at the same time, Israel got almost all the Jews who were forced out form the Arab countries, after living there for generations. The truth is that there is no a shred of evidence for any Palestinian entity, it is all a typical distortion of history made by the muslim world, and unfortunately we here in the UK, and in Europe being to easily manipulated by PR and media (Liberal left) and fail to distinguish between friend and foe.
Ted , UK (02.05.09)
STELLA!!!!! (#13) – Think before you talk!
You asked us to correct you if you are wrong, so here I go:
You call Israel’s campaign immoral and illegal – Find me a Palestinian map of the Middle East with Israel on it. You won’t find it. Look up the Official Charter of the Palestinians (Fatah, Hamas, you pick), see if it talks about independence without mentioning the destruction of Israel in it. Again, you won’t find it. They don’t want Israel and try to destroy it every way possible, forcing Israel to defend itself constantly.
You talk about refugees – Go look up how many actual Arab Refugees left Israel in 1948. Go see how many Jews were booted from Arab countries in 1948. Now go see whether any of the Jews have been allowed back into the countries that kicked them out. Now go look up whether these Arab “refugees” were forced out by Israel and how many were encouraged by their leaders to leave”. Moreover, go see how loosely the term refugee is used for the Palestinians as opposed to all other war refugees. Oh yeah, whiule you’re at it, count how many Arabs are in the Israeli Knesset. Now count how many Jews are in Arab positions of Government.
As to your incomplete version of history, one wishes you were right. First, look up how the Grand Mufti and Hitler were allies during WWII. Second, look up how Your country tried every possible way to limit Jewish immigration to Palestine, while allowing the Arabs to come unlimited. Then, go back beyond your 40-60 years to the end of the 19th century and see how many Arabs were in Israel at the time (Check Mark Twain’s quotes). They weren’t here. When the Jews started coming, they, protected by the Ottomans, started claiming lands.
Know the facts before you talk.
One more thing – when are you going to advocate for the refugee rights of the American Indians. Surely they number more than the Palestinian refugees?
JG , Modiin, Israel (02.05.09)
#13 stella, Europeans after WW I carved middle east region and created Syria, Iraq, and Palestine. 80% of Palestine is the state of Jordan, mostly inhabited by those Palestinians you talk about.
it is true the Brits aided the Arabs but the Arabs were not self governed here, they never formed a state here, & were not registered as the land owners in the ottoman land registry. They formed a local uniting movement only when Jews became a large minority in the 20th century. The British were not the first to try appeasing the Arabs by maintaining the Jewish minority ratio, so did the Ottomans, and other empires that ruled this region, because Jews were nonviolent people 2000 years, whereas Arabs were always blood thirsty bullies.
Arabs were slaughtering Jews here for centuries while living in cities created by Jews. If you are familiar with the Old Testament, you have some idea what I’m talking about. it was the arab interest to keep the middle east free of foreign influences, especially Jewish, as Jews always sought to return to Zion, another word for Jerusalem in bible. Arabs were seeking to keep the Jews tortured and unwelcome here, mainly because Jews were a nation here for 1500 years, which is longer then islam exists. Jews are a separate ethnic group, it’s not just a religion, it’s a way of life, a culture with traditions. whereas Palestinians are not a nation, they are Arabs, who came to the holy land, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc, from the same place, namely the Arabian Syrian deserts. but here they lived on the ruins of israel, and seek to do so again.
Palestine is a name given to this region by people who mispronounced philistines. But Philistines are an extinct race of idol worshippers, whereas Palestinians are Moslem Arabs.
Jews always wanted live together as a nation that they are, but only in the 20th century they managed to achieve it. Arab Moslems simply continue the same dogma, only this time, Jews are the majority, so they find it harder to kick them out, but they keep trying, because this is what they always did to Jews, and so they seek to be an arab majority here, using every possible means, not just traditional killing based on religious convictions they kept up in the Middle East.
historic reminder (02.05.09)
60 years ago there were no Palestinians yet, they were Arabs. The Israeli Arabs and the modern Palestinians are one and the same [the first batch , stayed, the second one, they left Israel, even thought Ben Gurion begged them to stay, but they chose to leave. Whose to blame? their ancestors.
By the way, the Promised Land belongs to the twelve Tribes of Israel. The Arabs already stole some of their lands. #13 ,
BtW, komen terakhir terhadap Stella yang saya kutip ini (komen #70) tidak terlalu informatif, bahkan emosional, tetapi saya suka, mengingatkan lagi bahwa urusan “mengembalikan tanah” ini bukan cuma masalah di Timur Tengah/Israel saja. ;)
#13 STELLA -U.K.-ARABS RETURN TO THEIR OWN HOMELAND–BRITAIN
STELLA, DID YOU JUST LAND FROM MARS?
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
THE BRITS SHOULD RETURN THE FALKLANDS STOLEN FROM ARGENTINA, RETURN IRELAND TO IRISH AND THE LIST IS ENDLESS…
BUT, STELLA AND U.K. — YOU HAVE ONE VERY HUGE PROBLEM NOW.
THE LARGE NUMBERS OF ARABS, MUSLIMS COMING TO U.K,.
IT SEEMS THAT THE ARABS-MUSLIMS ARE CLAIMING THE RIGHT OF RETURN TO THEIR OWN TRUE HOMELAND—-THAT IS CALLED BRITAIN ! —
AND STELLA, THEY WILL TELL YOU WHERE TO GO, BUT NOT IN A POLITE MANNER!
AVRUM , CANADA (02.07.09)
*ntah kenapa jadi teringat aspirasi pemekaran di Sumatra Utara dan perang sipil pemerintah vs separatis Tamil di Sri Lanka yang sedang hangat*
 kartun diatas saya tambahkan dari situs lain buat dekorasi saja, tidak ada hubungannya langsung dengan artikel yang saya kopas disini.